[00:00:00] Shannon Hernandez: Okay, so we're well we are here with the one and only, and I would like to call him the "Snob Villa" of Phoenix, Arizona. He is one of two hosts of the podcast, Crime and Sports and Small Town Murder. The very delicious tonight because you went out and had delicious food. And you're looking just as delicious.
My friend, Jimmie Whisman from a Crime and Sports and Small Town Murder. How are you?
[00:00:25] Jimmie Whisman: I'm doing very well. I've got my daughter and we made a chicken Parmesan tonight. My son wanted to do else things other otherwise. So we just ended up doing it just by ourselves. And then she picked out a bottle of wine for me.
So I'm good and drunk for this. And
[00:00:39] Shannon Hernandez: so did you finish the bottle of wine? That's the.
[00:00:42] Jimmie Whisman: I will one redundant.
[00:00:45] Shannon Hernandez: So for those who don't know, we are recording this on a Friday night, March 19th, Jimmie he said, he's nice. He's nice and easy for me tonight. So it's going to be a real fun, easy
[00:00:56] Jimmie Whisman: interview. So casual, super
[00:00:58] Shannon Hernandez: casual.
So again, I want to thank you for coming on to the podcast therapist and you're someone who I've wanted to talk with because. You are someone who has started from the very rock? I wouldn't say rock bottom, but the very bottom,
[00:01:13] Jimmie Whisman: I guess we bought her with nothing.
[00:01:15] Shannon Hernandez: And I want and that's the thing.
Is that people who come to my YouTube channel or they message me or they send me an Instagram message. They always say this is too hard. It's a struggle. I don't know what to do. I don't think this is worth it. And you and your partner James, Jimmie, James, Patrick Gallo. You guys are like the true.
Like you're the true Holly E Hollywood story in a good light, right? You guys are the ones that have done started from the bottom and have seen this thing to success. So I want to go in and start with the backstory of your two podcasts, Crime and Sports and Small Town Murder. First of all, how did the idea of you guys starting a podcast ever come to
[00:01:55] Jimmie Whisman: be.
Yeah. That's that's just a, it's essentially right now [00:02:00] and the way the world is today. It's a podcast world, a guy named Brent Tobler. He's a comedian, who's a terrific comedian. That's like his go-to phrases. It's a podcast world. And if you don't have a podcast now, And you're still making fun of comics who have podcasts.
You, you're already behind that's the first thing. But second when James and I started this, it wasn't like this, what it is today. Five years ago, it was a little less saturated, quite a bit less saturated today. It's bananas. When we started, it was pretty saturated, but we figured doing the route we were going to do with comedy and Crime and Sports making fun of athletes who have had a fall from grace and really.
Thrown away things that they didn't have to throw away doing things that they didn't have to do. And we made fun of them every week. We picked a different athlete and that was plenty. And then that kept going, and that was growing and that's our baby. That's the one that we love the most. But we decided that we were going to start a second podcast with Small Town Murder and just doing.
Murders in very small towns that nobody had ever heard of. There's plenty of podcasts, talk about Jeffrey Dahmer or gain or whatever. These famous comedians, Jack or famous murders Jack, the ripper there's tons of them. And almost every true crime podcast ends up covering that.
So James and I wanted to do something different and there wasn't anybody doing comedy with. Other than Karen and and Georgia. And so we decided we were going to do it on our own and do a different way and different take. And with Small Town Murder, we ended up really profiling, a small. And given you what it's like to our best through James's investigation of what it's like to live their lifestyle, their, whether it's a silly festival or what the houses cost or whether or not they vote Democrat or Republican major most majority in the town Spoiler alert.
It's in small towns. It's vastly Republican.
[00:03:42] Shannon Hernandez: I come from a small town. I know.
[00:03:45] Jimmie Whisman: So we tried our best to just give you a shape and of an overview of what it's like to live there. And then once we give you that, then we give you a horrible event that ruined that entire way of life and made people start locking doors at night.
And. [00:04:00] We're not, we don't do it to make fun of a horrible situation. We do it if look at James and I could just do a show called small towns and people would listen to that shit. We do that. The fact is we need a hook where people will listen and a good riveting story. And James and I.
Are from tragic password. He's had tragedy in his life, in the shape of murder of his family. And I've had tragedy in my life. In the shape of, I was robbed at gunpoint, duct taped and stuck in a walk-in freezer. I was molested as a child. I grew up in a household where molestation was happening. I'm I've experienced tragedy to on a different scale that.
More people I think have been affected by than murder probably. And if not more it's absolutely a comparable number. And so we chose that route now. Small Town Murder, quickly outpaced Crime and Sports. And we started having an audience for that. And we were upset by that because crime is sports is the one that we love the most and we love doing it.
But Small Town Murder became a beast of its own and we have to. Chase that beast also. And and turn that into everything that we can for it. And in the interim, we've come to love it as well. And we've expanded the shell where we started at 30 minutes and now it's grown to shit. Some of our hours are some of our shows are two and a half hours, three hours.
So our episodes get really. We wanted it when we started to just be like a lunch break podcast and it turned into something entirely different and I'm fine with that too as it grows you've got to, you've got to grow with it or change the direction of it. And if you don't do that, then it's going to the shows either going to suffer or you're going to suffer one way or another, if the show suffers, then you also suffer.
So we let the show grow the way it wanted to grow and how the audience wanted to grow. And. And then we've toured that one a lot more than crimes. We've only done a few live shows of Crime and Sports, but Small Town Murder. We've toured the entire country three, four times without COVID I've done it again.
And I
[00:05:51] Shannon Hernandez: want to get into that. I want to get into that and the opportunities that you've had with touring and all that, I want to really stick first with this idea of growth, but, you [00:06:00] mentioned that the podcast you wanted to T you wanted them as being like lunchtime podcasts.
And how did you recognize that a longer podcast would do much better for your audience?
[00:06:12] Jimmie Whisman: It's fascinating just watching James as it's why I'm so proud to be in business with a man like him is because he's dedicated to like stats and figures and numbers, and he keeps an eye on that stuff. Keeps an eye on whether or not people listen to and an episode from Indiana versus how many people listened to something from Mississippi versus how many people listened to something from somewhere else.
So we try to spread it around around the country, but we also strategically pick stories from specific areas based on what the audience wants. And then on top of that, watching the length of the show and comparing those numbers to a shorter show and seeing where. Where they stack up and the, by far.
It's not even close the long shows have 10, 20, 30,000 more downloads each week in the first week.
[00:06:59] Shannon Hernandez: It's really, what do you think it is about those longer shows that allow
[00:07:03] Jimmie Whisman: they want your fucking blood?
[00:07:07] Shannon Hernandez: You're like, oh my God, I've built so much content. They want no more. What
[00:07:12] Jimmie Whisman: I think it is, honestly, I think it's people that are, that sit in an office and they listened to shows.
And they have an eight hour shift, a eight hour day that they have to put in. And the longer the show, the more of that eight hours of a place that they don't want to be, it shows up that time and they're thankful for it. And they listen again and again, because it takes up so much more time. Look, Joe Rogan puts out five hour shows and I think it's because people that listened to those during the day or truckers that listen on long hauls people that have.
Hours to sit and don't want to do exactly what they're doing would rather kill that time with people that they associate with they can see something about whatever they identify with or whatever they're interested in. That's what they. They'll sit and listen to it. And I'm so thankful for people like [00:08:00] that because without them, these shows don't exist.
And and
[00:08:03] Shannon Hernandez: the funny thing about true crime and the idea of true crime, I remember diving into the true crime niche when the, when cereal first came out, because it was very story-like oriented, right? Yeah. But then. I started seeing more true crime podcasts coming out. And then of course that was when you and I first met and you guys were like, oh yeah, we do true crime podcast.
It's a comedy podcast. And I thought that's an interesting take. Like how do you create comedy out of. Tragedy, but you guys got your own way of doing that. And what I found interesting after learning about you guys and knowing you and then there was a point in time when you actually were coming down to the KUPD studios and recording.
And I, I had. Seen kind of the process of how you guys came up with content how James came up with his content. Can you explain can you visualize and share with the audience, how, what that looked like as far as what he did to create that content?
[00:08:56] Jimmie Whisman: Thankfully, James and I are both standup comics and we've been comedians for the better part of 10 years.
And that's how I know Brent Tobler that's I don't think I even mentioned that earlier that he's a comedian, then those people just like who the hell is Brent? Brent Tobler is the comedian that James and I know through comedy because we both comedians. And that's how we came up with podcasting as a, as an idea and an avenue to build something because all these comedians that we opened forehead had podcasts and.
We wanted to also do that, but a lot of comedians have podcasts that are built on having guests and having their famous guests and James and I being Phoenix comedians. We only work the clubs every a couple of weeks or once a month or whatever. If we're going to have a show every week, who are we?
We're not going to have Harlan Williams and bill Burr. And Bert Kreischer, isn't coming to my house, Joe Rogan, doesn't air about what James Patrick Allen and Jimmie Westman are doing. So we had to figure out a an avenue to get. We didn't require guests a and that's the first out of the gate.
And then second out of the gate was that we weren't just going to talk about [00:10:00] comedy because we know there's only so much why'd you start comedy that you can do. You know what I mean? There's only so much where did you start? Look, we're all Phoenix comedians. Where did you start at an open mic?
Obviously, that's where I started. Why? Because I hate myself. That's why. And how many times can you hear that answer? You know what I mean? So James is he w he was a filmmaker and he put shows and movies in in festivals and such. And he's a master at building a story arc. He knows where a twist or a plot point should be.
He knows if a story is going to be good. Yeah. And what it takes to make a good story. And if he comes through case files and case files of of incidents and events that have happened, that he throws some out, because look that's it's yeah, it's a murder and it's a terrible event.
And some there's some things in there that are interesting, but there's nothing funny about that. And there's only so many, a mom drowned a baby in a bathtub before you go. Maybe society just needs to get better. And then that's not on us. What James and I were comedians at the end of the day.
And we're not here to change the world. We're just trying to make this world easier to deal with.
[00:11:09] Shannon Hernandez: And then when it comes down to the actual physical creation of the podcast, like I've seen James with no cards, like we're not talking like a little baby, no cards. We're talking like those gigantic note cards.
And the last time I saw him. In uh, in the studio, down at the radio station, he had a plastic bag and it was filled with no cards that was, that were so thick. It was
[00:11:31] Jimmie Whisman: thick. It was for the show that night sin. And it was
[00:11:33] Shannon Hernandez: for that night. And I was like, are you kidding me? And I asked him, I said how much time did you put into that?
And he goes, oh, this is like an all week thing. To put, I think it was like an all what, like how long does it take for him to
[00:11:44] Jimmie Whisman: show? And we do two shows a week. So it takes all week for him to get a show together. So if it stinks that's a waste of a lot of time. And that's really the pressure that James and I are both under because he's got to produce.
A [00:12:00] an idea for us to talk about for a show. And then I come in sight unseen, not knowing anything of what's happening in the story, and I have to re react along with it. And we're basically both doing a headline set of an hour and a half run. Never done before. This is cut. One, one take Charlie.
This is it. Here we go. And if this. Hopefully they stick around for next week. So you're
[00:12:24] Shannon Hernandez: telling me that when you go in record a podcast, you're not pressing stop. And then going out let's rerecord that you're going.
[00:12:33] Jimmie Whisman: Jesus, no less the worst show. If you're not doing, if you're doing a show where it's a reactionary show, if you're cutting and editing a reaction, you're doing it wrong.
In my opinion, I think a reaction is a reaction good, bad or indifferent. It depends on how look, if you're going to be the reaction. You better have a reaction and you better be understanding that this stuff, whatever we're talking about, isn't supposed to be happening, or there should be some sort of visceral feeling for these words.
Otherwise, it's ridiculous. And I'm not trying to, we're not trying to get the best reaction. We're just trying to get a natural. This is how I heard this and I'm either stunned or I relate or I don't get it right. Or whatever the situation, but James and I are both very confident in the shows.
And I'm thankful to be able to work with somebody who wants to do this as badly as I do. And who's as hungry as I am and who I'm. Has a work ethic that is comparable to nobody I've worked with. Some of the funniest people on the planet, I've seen them perform. I've seen them work and I know the work ethic of comedians and I'll put James his work ethic up against any of these people.
All. Just because I know what he does and I'm, and I know what he's capable of and our live shows I've seen live shows. I've worked with comedians on live shows. I know what a standup set looks like and our live show competes with anybody's live show and is better than I [00:14:00] believe in it.
I believe it's better than. 90% of of podcast shows that are alive. You can't be in our show.
[00:14:06] Shannon Hernandez: That's just I've seen the social media posts of your live shows. I've seen. I've seen the magnitude that you guys have, what those live shows look like. I see these pictures of fans taking pictures with you.
And I'm like, like that dude was just in my studio. That was just at his house the other day. It's no, like this is blows my mind,
[00:14:26] Jimmie Whisman: but it doesn't make any sense to me either coming from being a boy that grew up in a. I grew up in south central Phoenix in a terrible neighborhood, but born in a trailer, not even a park, just a trailer in Colorado Springs.
I'm not anybody that is better than anybody else. And I'll never pretend that. And so when people treat. Differently. It doesn't, it feels fucking weird.
[00:14:50] Shannon Hernandez: Yeah, I would imagine. So I would imagine so. And, and I think going back to that, that talking about James, his work ethic and all that, and what I think the difficult part is for most pat podcasters, I could even love myself into this and it doesn't even have to do with podcasting.
It could be with my YouTube channel, but it can be difficult to. Maintain that motivation. But I think the one lesson that I hear from you is that consistency has been the success of your podcasts.
[00:15:18] Jimmie Whisman: Absolutely. And w if you set a schedule for your show, when you start and you say I'm going to do this once a week, If you don't at least do it, that you're missing your boat.
You're doing it. You're already doing yourself a disservice. You're doing your audience a disservice because they count on that. If you tell them right out of the gate, I'm gonna do this once a week. And then you skip two weeks and you're like, sorry about those two weeks. Add things in my personal life.
And this show doesn't pay me to do that. So you guys suffer. Why did you do this then? Man? Cause you told us you made a promise to us and you're already going back on that promise. What are you doing? And you're already being dishonest to your audience. If we miss a show for whatever reason, we so far, we haven't missed one without telling our audience two weeks or three weeks in advance.
But if [00:16:00] we miss one we make sure that the next one that we are going to put out is going to be as good or better than anything we've ever done. And we try our, we try really hard to be honest with our audience and Can't based on because sometimes life happens. If something happens and we can't be there, we make sure that they know and why they, why things happen.
It's, that's just the way, if you're going to be, if you're going to have an audience and you want them to trust you, you can't start start a trust relationship with lies. Let's just ask the
[00:16:30] Shannon Hernandez: wife how that's going to work. All right. And you know that what you just tell them told me is very true because you could take this out of the comedy or true crime niche, whatever.
My brother, a few years back, I was hanging out at his house and he's big into archery and, CrossFit and all that. And he wa he subscribes to all these podcasts. And then he would, I would ask him like what do you listen to? Which podcasts you listen to? And he would tell me which podcasts he listened to.
When I see you would say really like this archery podcast, but I get pissed. That when a Tuesday, the Tuesday Corral's round. And he doesn't have an episode for me because that's how I base my schedule as I based my schedule around his podcast. So that if I'm doing yard work or whatever, that's what I listen to get me through, because that's when I'm listening to his podcast.
So consistency and sharing. Sharing the consistency with people. And even if what you said when life happens, right? Life happens. I've seen you guys even post on your Instagram or on your Facebook and say I can't remember it was a while back, but I think there was like a computer problem or a hard drive
[00:17:31] Jimmie Whisman: problem.
Holy shit. The most unbelievable event ever happens because look, w thankfully now James, doesn't have to put things on cards we've done. Okay enough to get the man a laptop. So everything's in there right when we started and we built a studio in his basement, we had a computer that was an Acer computer with windows on it, and windows had an update.
So we clicked and we were about to record and it just said, you need an update. So James just clicked no later. And then it starts updating. [00:18:00] He was like, yeah, it's going to update. So let's just have a break. We'll chill for a minute and then we'll come back down. So we go upstairs, we come back downstairs and the computer.
That little rectangle in the corner is flashing James. I don't know why it's not working. So he shuts it off. Turns back up, goes back to that, a little rectangle working and he's I don't get it. What happens? So then he starts Googling the windows update is not compatible for this computer. We just bought the computer like three weeks ago.
It's not compatible with this computer, but it deleted the operating system for this computer. And then wouldn't update the new one. So now we are, we have a computer. Without an operating system and it won't take the new operating system. So we had nothing, we were screwed. We had to go buy a new computer and get a new operating system built into it so that we could do this all over again.
So thankfully I have a cousin that works for apple and she sent us one like now. And and we were able to take care of that later. But the next day we had a computer. So we were able to put, I think we put Small Town Murder out that week, but not Crime and Sports. And. Thankfully people understood, but man, that's an event that's life happening and you have zero control.
And the, really the heartbreak, cause I was upset James lips that we had, he had 40 hours put it into this damn thing and we can't even do it. And it's not through any fault of his own or any fault of mine or any lack of desire or drive. Technology shafted us. And that's just something,
[00:19:26] Shannon Hernandez: That happened to me a couple of weeks ago, I dropped my external hard drive and I was, and that just destroyed my life for a week because I just couldn't.
I was like, I had to go on, I messaged my people on YouTube and I created a podcast that was. 1520 minutes long. And I still maybe I didn't give the most to that podcast, but I did what I could.
[00:19:46] Jimmie Whisman: We booked a live show in Nashville and James flu the day before I left, he went up to Denver and across to Nashville, landed safely.
I booked the flight later and I was going over to Dallas, Fort worth and then over to Nashville [00:20:00] and I got to Dallas Fort worth. And then all of a sudden, an act of God happened. And they ground every plane for the next two days and I couldn't get out of there. Then I go to rent a car and I can't rent a car.
They're all rented. And I sat in that airport for 36 hours until I could get another plane up to, I flew from Dallas to Houston, to Detroit, back down to Nashville. And I got to the. 20 minutes before the live show, but there's another show that almost didn't happen because of an act of God. And I had that happen.
There were safety measures in place. They would add Dan Cummins and James, the audience would have been fine, but I wouldn't have been there. So it had been a different show, maybe better, but a different show.
[00:20:45] Shannon Hernandez: Yeah, it would have changed. Without you. Yeah, it would have changed
[00:20:47] Jimmie Whisman: completely with the acts of God happened. Events happen with technology. You have kids, you have a job, you have things in your life. If your podcast isn't paying your bills at the moment, and something happens in your life and it's, it seems more interesting and more fun to do rather than make that podcast because it's not paying bills.
You've gotta be able to weigh those options and understand that it may not pay the bills right now. But who's to say that time and patience and an audience built won't later. And James and I are a Testament to tell you today. A, there was a Thursday our second or first Thursday that we put a show out, we had 12 downloads and James was like, I guess that's it.
We shut this thing off and never do this again. And I was like, we got to give it a chance, man. It's not, is that
[00:21:33] Shannon Hernandez: yeah. I remember you being a major encourager of saying, we got.
[00:21:37] Jimmie Whisman: Got to keep going, man, you can't stop. And comedy is the same way, James and I both know that if you do it an open mic, your first open mic and you suck, you're gonna, you're going to quit now, but are you gonna try it again?
Give it, you got to give it a year. If it doesn't pick up any year. It's probably shit.
[00:21:53] Shannon Hernandez: And I think it will. If someone creates a podcast and sticks with it for at least a year, you [00:22:00] commit to a year you're going to see growth in downloads. It just happens.
[00:22:04] Jimmie Whisman: If you have 50 episodes, I guarantee you.
A, you're a better podcast at number 50 than you were at. Number one B you've got a bigger audience at 50, the number one, and and see your audience after number 51 is happier than audience after number one, right? I won't, I refuse there's you couldn't pay me money to listen to the first podcast that James and I put out where people will tweet us and tell us how in all they are of our first podcast versus where we are today.
There is no way I will listen to that because
[00:22:37] Shannon Hernandez: I will, as I recall, you guys were recording it on a video camera, right? Yeah.
[00:22:42] Jimmie Whisman: You were on a video camera, rips the audio, and then James would edit like music tracks or whatever in and then upload. Yeah, and we have recorded on Mike lapel, a lapel mics also.
So the audio was trash. The story thank Christ. James is a, is an unbelievable story. Arc writer. Otherwise we would have been in a lot of trouble and I was terrified because I was a, we were. Not super respected comedians. We w we were regulars at the clubs here and people liked us, but there's a new crop of comedians every six months.
And the new ones think you're an asshole every time. And after a few six month periods, you got a year and a half of people that think you're a Dick people disliking you, or start holding grudges because they can't get spots at clubs. James and I weren't even getting, we're not doing headlines spots.
We're talking about we're hosting. We're getting the occasional feature Spock. It's not money. We're not making big money, but we're making maximize money really at that portion of our comedy journey. And now, thankfully with the audience we've built that's really been, the goal is building. Then understands what we do, not just in our, not just on our podcasts, but understands our type of humor and what they could expect.
If they came to see us do our own standup live. And [00:24:00] up be meandering away from the podcast journey which I don't foresee happening because it's just so much fun. It's why to stand up every damn day. When you have so much fun with your
[00:24:11] Shannon Hernandez: best. I hear comics talk about that same thing they say, like, why would I want to do stand up when I could just do my podcast?
It's
[00:24:17] Jimmie Whisman: so much more fun. Yeah. But at the same time, there is that a direct response. When you tell a joke and it's something that you thought and something that you created and an audience gives it an a right now reaction to that, there's nothing that substitutes that there really isn't people being approving of something that you say right now is so rewarding, right?
I'm thankful to have that opportunity now that I could go to her. I could go do, I could go book a weekend somewhere if I want to. And I could draw an audience and people would be there for me. And I would I can't wait until that day happens where I can do a podcast a weekend.
I can go do a standup weekend. I can go do a podcast weekend. The money that I'd make from comedy and from stand-up would be very rewarding. And it would be something that I might share or show a little bit more granted I'm doing something with James that I would never give away for a million years.
You guys are
[00:25:11] Shannon Hernandez: like blood brothers.
[00:25:12] Jimmie Whisman: He's in several, I just under, I just understand the guy and he understands me and he sees where I come from. And. There was nothing that I would never, ever backstab the man or I won't jeopardize him. Anything that is his worth or his his self-interest.
Is that a word? That's not what it is. I don't know what the word I'm looking for, but I'm not jeopardizing his career path or his trajectory based on some stupid bullshit selfish need. When I need nothing. I'm broke. I came, I come from broke and I don't need anything and I'm fine. And I'm fine. Decent, just bills paid.
I'm fine with that. Sure.
[00:25:48] Shannon Hernandez: Le let's move into this idea of. Of growth of the podcast. And when you guys first started out with Crime and Sports, I remember you were being sponsored by [00:26:00] someone. I don't remember who it was, but you were being sponsored by someone or something. And then
[00:26:05] Jimmie Whisman: that company with nah, I don't know that I need to mention them necessarily, but it was.
It was a trouble relationship. It wasn't great, but it's because they were in some tax Haven somewhere. And the, they were a slow pay company and we started getting annoyed with that. So we ended up having our audience sweet about it, and our audience got us paid. Thankfully it wasn't a lot of money, but it was enough money to where a guy like me and a guy like James, where that money changed our lives.
It was definitely that it wasn't anywhere where If anybody would think about suing over bras, definitely money that could fix a lot in my life. And it did. And thankfully, we were able to get beyond that.
[00:26:42] Shannon Hernandez: Go ahead. I'm sorry,
go
[00:26:43] Jimmie Whisman: ahead. And then we moved into a different company that, that did find for us and had us a guarantee in in the return in ads return.
And that was nice and that was, it was great. And it was rewarding and we learned from it. And then we ended up with an agent. Yeah. Saw worth in us. That was beyond that. And and so he's got us in a contract with another ad company, which has been really everything. That's the whole reason that we started.
Let
me
[00:27:12] Shannon Hernandez: back up real quick. So before the sponsorship started coming when did you realize that sponsorships were going to be. Part of your guys's game, because there's multiple ways which you can make money with your podcast. I think you are you of all people know that this is the way, and you guys started with sponsorships.
Does it have to start with sponsorships or can it go start somewhere else? Like how did you know that sponsorships were the, was the thing that you guys had to go
[00:27:38] Jimmie Whisman: with? So at that point we needed it because of. James. And I, again back to what, how James and I view ourselves, we don't think that anybody should ever pay for what we do.
That's how we viewed it and how we felt. We didn't think we were worth anybody's money. We wanted an audience and we wanted people loyal to us and we didn't want to lie to them. So when we got ads, [00:28:00] we didn't want to get. We want it to be able to approve the ads and not just sell people, things just for the sake of making money, we want to do this the right way and do it on our terms. And thankfully, the ad companies that we've gotten have, let us pick the ads or at least turn down ads have the right of refusal. That's that was huge for us. Because at the end of the day, we don't want to do ads for vape pens. You know what I mean?
I don't want to tell a kid that the blue e-cigarette is better than what a. Fuse is out there because to be honest with you, a, I don't know, a B that's disgusting and see, they give me a sinus infection. And so I can't, you don't want me singing the praises of your product if it gives me a science facts.
We, but we chose ads in the term in regards to For a meal, prep delivery and stuff like that. Things that we believed in, things that we use. And we were okay with that. But then when we found when we found an avenue in terms of giving extra content to people that wanted it via Patrion.
That's when we started to see a path that was entirely different from anything else, whereas ads, you can make money and you can be fine with it. And you can make enough money depending on the size of your audience. You can make enough money to really. Just go on your way and be fine. But with Patrion you can be, you can choose a path to be beholden to your audience.
You can choose a path to really give them something that you feel is worth it, and you can make your own practice. That you think is worth money. And when you build something that you think is worth money and then people pay for it, that's where the, so what
[00:29:37] Shannon Hernandez: would you say if you were to say, if you were to help someone brand new jumping into this game, would you, and they came to you and they said, oh, Jimmie, I really want sponsorships for my podcast.
What do I do? Do I get sponsorships first? What would you, what advice would you give them?
